http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36?format=rss Tribe.net. Local Connections http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#02f805dc-c6aa-4467-8ee0-18ca7c0236ba Have you read Philip Pullman's THE SUBTLE KNIFE? The charactor of Will is very interesting and an interesting spin on the typical action hero. Wed, 15 Apr 2009 07:44:28 GMT http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#02f805dc-c6aa-4467-8ee0-18ca7c0236ba nigel 2009-04-15T07:44:28Z http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#13761b85-8d89-4fe8-946e-1b58e50f1fcb I've been struggling with the same problem. I want to write about an ruthless, cruel hero but struggle to make him likable. To answer your question. I like reading about charactors that are flawed and complex with contridictions. Consider: BATMAN: I vigilante who regularly breaks the law. Is driven by revenge and can only be considered the good guy when compared to the villians. JAMEWS BOND: He is self centred. He cannot make emmotional bonds with people and lets face it kills people for a living. In the books, he justifies this by claiming to be on some kind of personal quest. SHERLOCK HOLMES: Pompous, smug, self satisfied, dissmissive of lesser mortals. The regularly takes coccaine (apparently when work is boring and there is nothing to read in the newspapers) So many heroes are written to be subtle and nuanced. Stacie, write what you feel, make the hero real, warts and all. Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:38:28 GMT http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#13761b85-8d89-4fe8-946e-1b58e50f1fcb nigel 2009-03-27T09:38:28Z http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#04f50178-8068-473a-9d35-1aaeb5214f66 I would say what you don't tell the reader is just as important as what you do tell them. Think Iceberg Theory, one part above the waterline, 4 parts concealed below. When I write a character I sit down and 'write the character', a dossier if you will, what they look like how they dress, their quirks and nuances, personal history etc. Over the course of writing the story this develops and changes, which is fine because the character dossier is for my benefit only. It's never going to be in the story. The point of it being that I need to know my character intimately, the reader only needs to know so much as is pertinent to the story, and that I'm willing to intimate. If you know your character their personality will come out in the story without revealing to much. Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:02:55 GMT http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#04f50178-8068-473a-9d35-1aaeb5214f66 Ipsissimus 2009-01-21T18:02:55Z http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#8634d827-91f2-438c-b582-fc5d102a10b8 Big sister is my hero. The strongest member of my family. Thu, 25 Dec 2008 09:54:49 GMT http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#8634d827-91f2-438c-b582-fc5d102a10b8 Max 2008-12-25T09:54:49Z http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#00091002-a4b6-4fc9-afa5-6c55e1502720 Hmm. I read the question the same way, as in "Who is the hero/protagonist of what you're writing right now?" But my answer is completely the opposite. My hero is someone things just happen to. He never really does anything himself. Even when he travels, he never goes anywhere, places come to him. He's practically invisible. Wed, 24 Dec 2008 15:07:32 GMT http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#00091002-a4b6-4fc9-afa5-6c55e1502720 JM 2008-12-24T15:07:32Z http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#b7ea4d52-61e8-409c-8b84-fab74f951d23 This topic actually got me thinking and I realised a great way to develop your charachter developing abilities. Write short stories where the character is more important than the plot. Ones where the nature of the character is pivotal and neccasary to the story. Leave and empty open plot (because these aren't stories to send to a publisher) but have a great character. The story that is most readable should be the one with the best character Tue, 23 Dec 2008 06:03:47 GMT http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#b7ea4d52-61e8-409c-8b84-fab74f951d23 max 2008-12-23T06:03:47Z http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#cec28b57-ca14-4c43-8abe-5e264580f6db I vote for internal conflict, too. Some months ago I watched a History Channel program on Lincoln, which delved into his melancholy and his personal crises. A program last night on the mythological underpinnings of Star Wars included a "hero's journey" section that discussed such elements as heroes being thrust into positions/quests that they initially didn't want, and then their internal struggles of good versus evil. Dramatic internal conflicts can apply to the small as well as the grand. A shy kid mustering the courage to defend an outcast being bullied by the popular class clique has the potential for great internal conflict, drama, and heroism. Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:27:17 GMT http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#cec28b57-ca14-4c43-8abe-5e264580f6db Elissa 2008-12-22T16:27:17Z http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#833224f4-b124-404b-92e6-75880668cda9 Well human beings love conflict. That's essentially what a story is (Or a sports game, or most of the 'interesting' parts of history); a conflict. Just look at the people who are idolised/historic household names, whose achievements are known. Wellington, Washington, Churchill, Arthur, Nelson, Ali, Woods, Patton, Zidane etc. Aside from scientists, many of whose achievements are either, usually, vaguely or not known. And even with scientists the most famous ones are the ones who create controversy, aside from Einstein. What I'm trying to say is your protagonist needs to be someone who would get involved in conflict, because that is how people rise to become heroes, and who would maybe relish it. Someone who is arrogant, or egotistic, or narcissistic. My heroes are Napoleon, Darwin and Blucher, so two military men and one of histories most controversial men. They were probably not that moral, but they were conflicting, which is what makes a great person, a standout. They stand there and do battle, physically, mentally or emotionally, and I think that is the overruling 'virtue' all protagonists (and antagonists) must have. Obviously just my opinion though :) Hope that helps Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:40:56 GMT http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#833224f4-b124-404b-92e6-75880668cda9 max 2008-12-22T10:40:56Z http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#b7657776-ceb6-4787-9095-bfe6c960f826 Well, I'm not big on personal heroes but,... Creating the protagonist by opposites of your hero can be subtle as well. You have a hero that is subtle and nuanced. So, make the protagonist more of the chess type. Play out subtle evil plans with ominous nuances to challenge the hero at every turn. Use that boring facade to fill the reader with question, fear, and dread of what the hero will have to face. Or, what the protagonist will do next. My .02 Best of luck Thu, 21 Feb 2008 03:41:42 GMT http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#b7657776-ceb6-4787-9095-bfe6c960f826 Tim 2008-02-21T03:41:42Z http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#f541b273-e368-49d0-8881-3bc247e68ce0 It might sound lame but my hero is my mom. She was tough as nails when it came to physical pain and being stubborn. She had a great sense of humor and always had a song for everything. She loved everyone she came into contact with as if they were her own children but she didn't take crap from anyone. She was tough but fair. She always put others ahead of herself and never wanted a big deal made of it. It is funny how much you appreciate or admire someone until they are gone. Here's to you Mom! Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:07:40 GMT http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#f541b273-e368-49d0-8881-3bc247e68ce0 Minderella 2008-02-20T22:07:40Z http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#0279f9f0-be72-47d8-ace2-05ae82f10635 I got some advice about writing a compelling protagonist lately that seems to pinpoint some of the problems I have been having. I was told to think of a person who is my hero, and what qualities that person has that makes them heroic to me, and also to consider what the opposite of that would be. Then, include those kinds of qualities in my protagonist. Trouble is, the people I admire tend to be subtle and nuanced, which makes my protagonists a little borign or even unlikable if I am not careful. I need to re-define my heroes a bit, perhaps? Who is your hero and why? Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:04:08 GMT http://fictionwriting.tribe.net/thread/8996dcc3-8604-4dfe-9f26-de3894cf9d36#0279f9f0-be72-47d8-ace2-05ae82f10635 Stacie 2008-02-20T19:04:08Z